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Volkswagen Jetta, Golf, GTI: 1993-1999, Cabrio 1995-2002 (A3) Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL


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Last Post: Jun 7, 2014 3:40 AM Last Post By: 2-fox-owner
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 3, 2014 9:39 PM
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Hi, I have a 1996 Golf hatchback CL 5speed 1.8L single overhead cam.

8 months ago I had the rare hesitation when changing into 4th or 5th gear and giving it gas, loss of power, but didn't stall. Few months later I stalled waiting for a red light. I noticed the RPMs varied quite a bit but in a small range between 750~820. Last few months it stalled when changing into 2nd and giving it gas, it would cut out. Started easy. Drove ok for long periods. But stalling got worse. Might not start right away after stall but starts and runs suprisingly well after 15secs. Now it just konks out while I'm giving it gas at any gear and sometimes in neutral. Changed sparks, new air filter, put hi-octane fuel, cleaned body throtle but don't know if I have any air sensor. I'm in the process of changing fuel filter. Oh and cold starts are normal, steady at 1050rpm until warm. Thanks for any advice.
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 5, 2014 11:19 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Fuel filter changed and cleaned the air throttle housing again. Starts great & idles correctly and smoothly until warm. Seems very normal. 1st gear ok, 2nd gear konks out! Stalls nearly all the time. I'm open to suggestions.

Edited by: 2-fox-owner on Apr 5, 2014 11:19 PM
tcovenant2000

Posts: 1,767
Registered: 12/09/03
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 6, 2014 3:48 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Sounds very much like lack of fuel. Keep in mind that even 6000RPM with no load (not driving) isn't nearly as much fuel flow as 2000RPM in second gear. I would look at fuel pump. It's not likely a vacuum leak, as those usually affect low speed/idle more than driving. You've changed the fuel filter. That's a good start. Maybe you've got a wonky injector.
What year? Does it have OBD?

Thomas
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 6, 2014 4:47 PM   in response to: tcovenant2000 in response to: tcovenant2000
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It's a 1996 1.8L manual transmission and I believe it's OBDII. I'll get it scanned before I start spending for hi-priced parts. It might be the fuel pump as the worsening symptoms could be due to a failling pump. But it hums normally at ignition. Turns on easy, idles great, you'd think all is perfect, drives ok until warmed. Then keeps stalling. Would a bad O2 sensor cause the same progression of worsening stalls?
tcovenant2000

Posts: 1,767
Registered: 12/09/03
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 7, 2014 10:09 AM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Possibly, but usually not stalling unless other things are wrong. O2 sensors usually fail such that they tell the ECU the mix is really, really lean, so the ECU tries to max out enrichment. That causes rough running and smoke from the exhaust, usually.An easy test is to simply disconnect the O2, then it won't have any effect and the car will go into open loop mode. If the problem seems relieved, you've likely found the culprit. That's a good guess, as the O2 will have no effect until the car warms up. It costs nothing to disconnect the O2 and drive it around and see how it goes.

Thomas
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 7, 2014 6:38 PM   in response to: tcovenant2000 in response to: tcovenant2000
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So I disconnected my O2 sensor. Started ok but stalled in about 2min warming up. Plugged back, stalled within 1min. Started again, within 2 minutes idling, whether the O2 is plugged or unplugged, it stalls, so problem keeps getting worse. Will now be checking my fuel pump!
tcovenant2000

Posts: 1,767
Registered: 12/09/03
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 8, 2014 5:36 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Don't discount the fuel pump relay, either. Run it until it stalls. Then put your finger on the fuel pump relay and see if it's noticeably hot.

Thomas
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 8:51 PM   in response to: tcovenant2000 in response to: tcovenant2000
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I have not driven the car since early April.. I had to wait for a new fuel pump and I changed it. Car starts ok sounds right, but still, it cuts out in 2 minutes. Changed the fuel-pump relay to a newer but used one. Again starts good but cuts out soon. Not the fuel delivery system.
tcovenant2000

Posts: 1,767
Registered: 12/09/03
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 9:55 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Could be plugged cat or muffler. Easy to test. I assume it's dying even if just idling for 2 mins? Put a vacuum gauge on a tee connected to the intake manifold. Start her up and let her idle. You should see 21-23" of vacuum while idling. If not, you likely have a large vacuum leak somewhere. If the cat or muffler is plugged then you'll see the vacuum slowly decreasing (due to pressure buildup in the exhaust) over the two minutes until it drops below about 15-16 and the engine dies.

Thomas
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 10:04 PM   in response to: tcovenant2000 in response to: tcovenant2000
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Cuts out before warming up. Plugged cat or muffler?..well that's easy to test, if I disconnect my pipe going into the catalytic converter and it WON'T stall, that'll be worth the noise LOL! Could explain the increasing frequency of stalls.

I have previously checked the vacuum lines, did a minor hose repair, and made sure everything is plugged in right.
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: May 8, 2014 7:37 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Updates:

Unconnected the cat and beyond.. Stalled. I put it back.

After thinking about when the stalling got worse, I put back my old spark plugs and seemed better, meaning it drove for a bit.

I have a new main fuel pump & new fuel filter on it. The fuel relay does get warm (not hot) to the touch after idling 15 minutes. This is when I used a VAG-COM version KKL409.1-US. Car identified ok, correct engine, scanned ~8 modules but had NO FAULT CODES! Car was idling ok and did not stall. I turned it off. Checked the relay noticed it was warm, used another fuel relay (had got an extra one just in case), I hear the pump priming ok, but now this Golf won't start at all. Changed back the relay, let it cool half hour, cranks but no go, like starved of fuel. It's too bad the car only has 177,000km (110,000m) but it's about to be scrapped! :-(

Edited by: 2-fox-owner on May 8, 2014 9:41 PM
BobD

Posts: 1,818
Registered: 11/29/04
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: May 13, 2014 9:02 PM   in response to: 2-fox-owner in response to: 2-fox-owner
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Can you check fuel pressure?
If you have vagcom, can you see what temp the ECU is seeing, once it's warmed up.

When it stalls, have you tried starting it with the MAF unplugged?
2-fox-owner

Posts: 42
Registered: 07/14/06
Re: Stalling problem getting worse on 1.8L SOHC Golf CL
Posted: May 27, 2014 2:29 AM   in response to: BobD in response to: BobD
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Removed my overhead cam. Replaced the whole unit with a second hand one after cleaning it. So that's a different throttle valve with pressure regulator, plus injector and accelarator cable unit, and mind you, 3 different plugs have to be plugged in to the cam. Starts great. After iddling a bit I decided to throttle it up..stalled again. No choking or coughing just cuts out.

Rechecked my fuel lines: unplugged the charcoal canister in-out hoses let them breath. I bypassed my return fuel line completely with a temporary hose. Again worked as if nothing's wrong, fuel flows back at a good rate. Stalled after a minute or so. Did this with the send hose directly from tank fuel pump to cam. Stalled. Like I said before not the fuel delivery system.

Can't idle enough now to get warmed up so VAG-COM showed 17C.

I managed to hook up a vacuum meter. It shows -18"Hg at start and improves to -19" just idling. If it doesn't stall and I increase the rpms to ~2000rpm it rises to -22", however drops to -19" when idling. When it drifts to -18" it stalls. Needle always stays steady and always stalls as the needle drops to -18. What does it mean?

Edited by: 2-fox-owner on Jun 6, 2014 9:39 PM

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