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Volkswagen Eos: 2007 (1F) START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!


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Last Post: Jan 7, 2012 11:04 PM Last Post By: estergard
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 2:53 AM
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I have a 1999 NEW BEETLE TDI, with a newly rebuilt engine. Prior to rebuild, the Injection Pump worked perfectly well. After re-assembling the car, and starting...I have Constant Loss of Power. RPM's won't rise over 2500. I get 1 code on VCDS...17656 ( Start of Injection Timing).
Measuring Group 5 shows my ACTUAL INJECTION START TIMING at 27.5 BTDC. My timing is stuck at 255 with a SOLID VERTICAL YELLOW LINE, on the graph. With new timing belt components...I set, and re-set timing 5 times...correctly, with the same results.
I checked the N108 with a Multimeter, and got a STEADY 14.5 reading. I gave the N108 12 volts...and, it "clicks". My # 34 Fuse is good. Terminals # 9 & # 10 are supplying power.
I took the IP plate & spring out of the pump, and inspected the injection timing piston ( for contamination & freedom of movement)...it is good. I removed the N108, and checked the screen...it is clean. I removed the Pressure Valve, and re-set the clip...it is perfect.
How can I correct this problem, without buying a new IP? What is the soloution to setting the START OF INJECTION TIMING? I read the post which directs us to page 23-23. I have the BENTLEY BOOK...NOT THE SOFTWARE. What possible soloution is listed in 23-23? Please HELP! I have been at this for 7 days...

Edited by: estergard on Jan 7, 2012 2:54 AM

Edited by: estergard on Jan 7, 2012 3:01 AM

Edited by: estergard on Jan 7, 2012 10:40 PM
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 1:04 PM   in response to: estergard in response to: estergard
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Did you use the cam & IP locking tools when doing the job?

Did you use the correct tdc mark on the flywheel?

Was the camshaft sprocket & IP sprocket loose when you adjusted the t-belt tension?

If you had no problem before the repair, then something is not aligned correctly.
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 1:39 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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I used the Metalnerd Cam Tool & IP Tool to correctly set timing...

I used the correct Timing Mark on the Flywheel, and indexed it with the marks on the Harmonic Balancer & Mark on the front of the engine.

The Camshaft Sprocket & IP Sprocket were loosed, when tension was set...and, TDC was rechecked after setting.

I did this 5 times, (once with another VW Mechanic).

My problem is with "START OF INJECTION TIMING", but I only have VCDS, THE BENTLEY BOOK, and ALLDATA to run down the soloution. I read here (posted by a BENTLEY TECH) that the process is outlined in the BENTLEY CD...23-23 START OF INJECTION TIMING.

My actual START OF INJECTION TIMING is 27.5 BTDC....indicating a bad N108. This problem is throwing my timing off the VCDS graph to 255, (default reading). However, the N108 is testing "GOOD" @14.5 ohms. The N108 is a $400 part. The IP is $1000.

I need technical guidence, and advanced technical information...to solve the problem without purchasing unnecassary EXPENSIVE PARTS!.

Edited by: estergard on Jan 7, 2012 1:39 PM
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 1:46 PM   in response to: estergard in response to: estergard
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I'm not in front of my main PC right now, but I can post some more info once I get home.
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 3:24 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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Attachment DITCR.pdf (303.1 KB)
Attachment N108.pdf (409.8 KB)
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17656/P1248/004680

Have you tried to adjust the IP sprocket to retard the timing?

If the N108 resistance is good & it gets power than it should be ok, since it was BEFORE the repairs.

Using VCDS, you can perform output tests at idle, to see if N108 is operational.

  • However, this will only prove positive if the actual belt/pump timing is correct to begin with!

See attached pdf for output test procedure.

Second pdf "Diesel Injection Timing Control Range checking"
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 9:02 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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I spent a lot of time adjusting the IP SPROCKET, both ways....it runs better and worse, but the actual "START OF INJECTION TIMING" (in measuring group 5) remains at 27.5 BTDC. Timing Graph under BASIC SETTINGS stays pegged at 255 (default). I have a START OF INJECTION problem. I do not have a problem with the mechanical timing. I get VCDS code "17656"....START OF INJECTION TIMING!

I also went through 13 other checks for "CONSTANT LOW POWER". Turbo, Acuator, EGR, vaccuum lines, N75 selenoids, Fuel Level sensor, ALL fuel lines, connectors, fuel filter, fuel tank, fuel, MAF, Air Supply, Camshat Sprocket, Crankshaft Gear, Crankshaft Position Sensor, Fuse #34, IP plug connections #9 & #10, I replaced the ECU. I double=checked several of these things.

I want to check my "G80".. Do you have information on testing the "G80" NEEDLE LIFT SENSOR, plug and connections? I want to put a multi meter on it.
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 9:11 PM   in response to: estergard in response to: estergard
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I can send you VW Service Manuals in PDF form... the file sizes are too large to attach here.

What's your email address.

I get that it's a "start of injection" code.... but like I said, if it ran before, then it should run fine now (what has changed since).

I've never run into the same code after a repair, that's why I had nothing else to offer with regards to that code... aside from the obvious (belt/pump timing).
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 9:35 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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I appreciate your help! My email is estergard@aol.com. I read in this Bentley Forum, a previous post where a Bentley Tech advised there is information ONLY IN THE BENTLEY CD VERSION under 23-23. I have the Bentley Book, and looked at 23-23, which offers no help. I want to make sure my N108, is bad before buying an IP or N108...and BIG$$$!!!.
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 9:56 PM   in response to: estergard in response to: estergard
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Can you swap the pump from the motor you are selling... just for testing?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3660381
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 10:38 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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I wish I could! That engine is in Phoenix,AZ, and it's completely assembled. I'm advertising it for my close friend. I asked him to sell it to me, but, he wants to sell the complete engine. I live in Rockford, IL. If I beg him to tear up his engine...I'll hurt his capacity to sell his item, and earn income. That's not courteous, or friendly!

Edited by: estergard on Jan 7, 2012 10:38 PM
FKH161

Posts: 7,634
Registered: 12/29/05
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 10:48 PM   in response to: estergard in response to: estergard
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Sorry, didn't realize it was not at your location.
estergard

Posts: 6
Registered: 01/07/12
Re: START OF INJECTION PROBLEM!
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 11:04 PM   in response to: FKH161 in response to: FKH161
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You've been most helpful. Every one of your suggestions is highly sensible, resourceful, and a correct possible soloution. I can't seem to wrap my brain around the idea my N108 is Bad, when it tests good! Thank you so much for the time, and concern.

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