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Last Post:
Nov 7, 2009 7:44 PM
Last Post By: tcovenant2000
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Posts:
7
Registered:
11/04/09
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1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 12:24 AM
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Guys and gals,
So I am driving cross country right now and I am having problems. When I am driving I seem to bounce in and out of 3 and 4 cylinders of power. It isn't rhythmic or with any kind of order. I did a bunch of repairs today in wisconsin, thinking I had solved the problem I took off again...and about 100 miles in to the driving I started having the problems again. I get minutes of full power now, almost 20 miles of good driving then the loss of power came back. Also, my mpg is terrible (less than 10), but I think this could be a consequence of lower power and a foot on the floor or close to it.
here is what is done so far:
-new coil
-detached 02 sensor
-hooked up a ground from engine to firewall (was snapped)
-changed fuel filter (vw shop said i was getting good pressure to engine)
-plug wires are pretty new
-plugs were checked at dealership
-got the vanagon syndrome wiring harness
I am not sure what the best plan is, maybe check the distributor? also I was told the throttle body could be an issue and to 'tap' on it and that could settle it down if there was an issue. i tried it once, and it seemed to help. Also, when I stop and come to a traffic light or something while it is '3 cyl' mode, it barely runs or stalls.....
Needless to say I am in minneapolis right now in a friends parents basement trying to figure out if I need to get some parts overnighted here. Any help is appreciated.
Austin |
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1,207
Registered:
08/06/02
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 11:49 AM
in response to: Ute
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Welcome to the Vanagon Syndrome! The wiring harness fix is not a complete cure, as I think you are finding out. All my Vanagons have had this symptom at times, and usually in colder, moist weather. I'm afraid there can be many causes, but even with the harness fix I think the air-flow meter is the usual culprit. The harness fixes momentary loss of signal from vibration, but dirty or worn potentiometer tracks (and maybe a buildup of moisture on them during long cruising in the right conditions) can drop out the signal long enough to put the ecu into limp mode where it continues to ignore the AFM signal. In this case it won't consider it again until you shut the ignition off and turn it back on. If shutting off and restarting (I've even done it while coasting) makes the problem go away for even a short while, I'd suspect this.
If the O2 sensor is NOT the issue you should re-connect it, as without either the O2 or the AFM signal (in limp mode) it is really blind.
I eliminated it on both vans I had at the time by prying off the square black plastic cover over the potentiometer on the Air Flow Meter and cleaned the tracks and contacts with CAIG chemicals Pro-Gold (also called DeOxit Gold) contact cleaner and enhancer. The vans would run fine for over a year, and if it began the symptom again re-treating would again cure it.
Other things can cause the limp-mode issue also, but this is the most common.
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Posts:
7
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11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:12 PM
in response to: TomB
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Ok, So I opened the AFM box and look inside to find what looks like a brand new set up. I mean, there is no wear on the black strip, no oxidation..looks really nice. I got a ohmeter and tested ecu and my resistances for the AFM and temp2 sensor came back good. This was done cold though. I was able to locate a temp2 sensor here in minneapolis and I am going to put it on today. Also, I have been told by a vanagon pro that sometimes the green wire that goes to the O2 sensor can interact with itself at the connector because it a coaxial line. So I cut the connector off, and made sure there was no contact at the end. I am leaving the O2 sensor off for now.
Yesterday I hooked up an engine to firewall ground, as the cable was broken. However I think maybe I didn't clean the firewall enough, or the other connectors because it was pretty oily. Today I took a piece of sand paper and a wire brush and scraped the paint off at the screw point, and I also cleaned the connectors that were already there.
IS there any way this could be a distributor issue? I have to get one overnighted to where I am if that is the case...I am hoping it is not the case.
also, if i do stall out on the highway, it doesn't just restart. It needs a few minutes.
Edited by: Ute on Nov 4, 2009 3:12 PM
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11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 4:31 PM
in response to: Ute
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So I realized when I opened the air box that there is no air filter...so I am putting one in. Also, I checked the plugs and they were carbon covered with a bit of build up on them. I am putting new plugs in as well....
I also reconnected with O2 sensor..
any other suggestions?
austin
Edited by: Ute on Nov 4, 2009 4:59 PM
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1,207
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 6:15 PM
in response to: Ute
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Since it won't restart immediately it doesn't sound like the usual syndrome. My son's 87 would do this, and it turned out to be lots of crud in the tank, that would slosh and sometimes clog the fuel pickup. Normally the fuel pressure checked fine, so this wasn't easy to find. I finally hooked up an oil-pressure sender to the fuel test connection so we could watch it while driving. Sure enough, when it would start to bog down the fuel pressure was also dropping. Put in an aftermarket tank and all was fine.
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7
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11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 8:28 PM
in response to: TomB
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I got the contact cleaner and sprayed the MAF sensor just now. I guess I have to let this stuff dry before I run the beast huh?
I just replaced plugs, they were out of spec on the gaps and had some whitish looking deposits on them along with carbon...almost grayish buildup. The parts store had a distributor cap for cheap so I just got a new cap and rotor just for piece of mind. I also picked up an air filter (there wasn't one even in the air box...). I took this beast to a shop before my trip and they were supposed to change it out...but apparently they didn't notice one wasn't in there.
A cruddy gas tank would be the worst case scenario right now...I have dropped a tank before and stuff... |
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Posts:
1,207
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 8:45 PM
in response to: Ute
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Well, I did have another issue with an 87 that caused similar symptoms of lost power, engine stopping randomly and eventually starting and running fine. Turned out it was a fault in the ECU. Swapping components between vans to see when the problem would move, it seemed to be the ECU. I unmounted the ECU but left it connected, and with the van idling it would die if I shook or rapped on the ecu. Almost like a bad solder joint, etc. Couldn't find the problem so I replaced the ECU, and it was fine after that.
It's easier to change than a tank, but costly if it isn't really the problem.
Good luck!
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Posts:
7
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11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 9:25 PM
in response to: TomB
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So I just took her out for a drive and things were going great....until i fueled up.
Shortly after I gassed up I had the loss of power. Dropped to about 39mph on the highway. It ran slow for a few minutes then picked back up. It sounds to me like the tank is the issue......
any takers? Anyone know any tank cleaning places in minneapolis?
austin |
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Posts:
5,903
Registered:
12/29/05
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 10:32 PM
in response to: Ute
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Could be coincidence... loss of power that is even across all cylinders or is the engine shaking like it's only running on 3. If she's only running on 3, determine which cylinder... you can do a power balance test by pulling spark plug wires (one at a time) from the distributor cap. Just for a second or two (each) is enough to tell you if that cylinder is doing its job or not. A drop in RPM is good, no drop in rpm means that that cylinder is not producing power.
If you get shocked when pulling/touching the ignition wires, it's time for new wires! 
Fuel pressure regulators like to stick when they get old and not allow fuel to return to the tank. This results in high fuel pressure which then floods the engine (power loss & black smoke).
I have seen Air Flow Meter Harnesses (the ones that fix the syndrome) go bad... removing it cured the power issue.
Take a fuel sample & check flow/pressure before you dive-in and drop the tank. |
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7
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11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 11:58 PM
in response to: FKH161
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I will check to see if there is power drop over whole engine or at individual cylinder tomorrow, I had the fuel pressure checked in at the engine and it was in the mid 30s psi.
I am wondering if the return could be an issue. However, I am not getting any crazy smoke or anything either.
The engine when it loses power almost feels as if it is being starved. It isn't where there is ignition at the wrong time and there is bucking and jerking. It is always a cut-out situation. 100% to 75%....or something like that. Thanks for any other help.
An aside, what if i just got a another fuel container to just get my trip finished and put it in the slider and ran a house to the fuel pump....If i have to order a tank it is going to have to be overnighted and puts my trip back another day....
thoughts?
austin
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Posts:
5,903
Registered:
12/29/05
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 1:19 AM
in response to: Ute
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I would only suspect the return if you have high fuel pressure, and even then, it's usually a pressure regulator issue rather than a plug in the return line or a plug in the tank... in my experience.
I would advise against a fuel container in the car with a hose running to the pump!!! Not only a fire hazard but also illegal I'm sure.
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Posts:
7
Registered:
11/04/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 8:25 AM
in response to: FKH161
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I am getting a fuel pressure regulator at 930am local time...
I hope this is it.....
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Posts:
5,903
Registered:
12/29/05
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 10:17 AM
in response to: Ute
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Just to be clear, I did not say that it was a regulator problem (I don't want to be blamed if it doesn't solve your issue)... I simply stated that in most cases (high pressure) that the regulator was at fault.
The regulators can even be the cause of low pressure (dumping too much fuel back into the tank) which also results in loss of power. I assumed that when your pressure was checked and deemed OK, that fuel pressure was ruled-out as the cause... the only reason I brought-up the regulator, was to point out that the return line/feed has never been of an issue (in my past).
Don't just buy parts when you receive suggestions. Keep digging/testing till you find the cause.
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Posts:
4
Registered:
11/05/09
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 9:15 PM
in response to: Ute
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Had you just filled up with Gas. Sounds like dirty feul. I had the same problem, I would start to lose power after going down a hill, turned out I had got dirty gas and I needed to replace my feul filter. i know it sounds easy but it solved my problem, or you could drain and clean your tank and get a new feul pump and feul filter if you want to go the whole hog.
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98
Registered:
12/09/03
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 10:41 PM
in response to: Ute
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The most important thing to determine is whether you are having an electical issue or a fuel issue. When I have these types of problems, I put a fuel pressure gauge on with a long hose so that I can have the gauge beside me. I drive until the issue begins, then glance at the gauge. Still holding pressure? You have an electrical issue in the ignition or fuel injection. Pressure dropping? Its a fuel issue - clog, pressure regulator, pump, something.
One thing to try. I had this happen to me recently. My problem was a poor connection at the ECU. I disconnected the harness, sprayed with contact cleaner, reconnected. It fixed my problem.
Z
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Posts:
1,278
Registered:
12/09/03
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Re: 1988 wolfsburg running issues..MIDWAY ON CROSS COUNTRY TRIP! help!!
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 7:44 PM
in response to: ZMan
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Hmmm...you actually bring a fuel line into the passenger compartment with you? You're braver than am I!
Anyway, you should check all grounds. These cars are famous for crappy grounds.
Thomas
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