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Audi 90 1993-1995, Cabriolet 1994-1998 (B4) relay 4 the power windows and sunroof


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Last Post: Aug 3, 2012 11:07 AM Last Post By: cesar67
jong

Posts: 16
Registered: 03/12/06
relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Jul 14, 2007 1:04 PM
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can anyone help? i need to know which relay if for the power windows and the sunroof. i am not getting power to one of the fuses under the steering collum. and ideas
dbodey

Posts: 40
Registered: 08/24/03
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Jul 14, 2007 4:09 PM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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According to the Bentley manual, relay positions 5 & 6 in the auxiliary relay panel contain the power window and
sunroof control module.
jong

Posts: 16
Registered: 03/12/06
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Jul 14, 2007 7:00 PM   in response to: dbodey in response to: dbodey
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thanks i think it might be the power control mod.
dbodey

Posts: 40
Registered: 08/24/03
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Jul 15, 2007 2:02 PM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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What a coincidence! I went to start my '95 Audi 90 yesteday, and I found that the windows and sunroof wouldn't work! So I removed the knee panel and pulled out the sunroof/door control module (mine is numbered 4A0 959 257 and has 363 marked on the top of the case).
I took the module into my workshop and removed the cover so that I could examine the PC board. The Bentley manual indicaates that terminal 30 is battery, 31 is ground, and 15 is ignition. So I connected 12V to 30, ground to 31, and jumpered 15 to ignition. Nothing happened! So I took a small screwdriver, applied pressure to each of the components one-by-one on the PC board, and one of the relays started clicking on and off. My assumption was that there was a cold solder joint (electronics jargon for an intermittent connection). I began to concentrate my troubleshooting efforts in an area where the radial capacitors were located (look like vertical cylinders). I found that by putting slight pressure on certain parts, I could repeatedly get the relay to turn on and off. I then took a soldering iron and reheated the pads associated with the diodes in the corner of the PC board near the relay (see picture). Now the relay came on everytime ignition was applied to terminal 15. I put the module back in the car, and the windows and sunroof work as expected. Note that I am not saying the all malfunctioning modules have cold solder joints issues, but it may be worth investigating before you spend the money on a new one. The picture shows the pads that I reheated.
bennyunknown

Posts: 1
Registered: 09/05/07
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Sep 5, 2007 3:39 PM   in response to: dbodey in response to: dbodey
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Attachment audi06.jpg (107.2 KB)
dbodey!

Thanks for the tips!

Mine was identical to your issue, same part numbers et al.

Let me tell ya, I was one disgruntled *******, my blower motor has quit (next on the to do list) and I was taking my time repairing that as it was now summer and I like rolling with the windows down versus using A/C. Well when it was 36 degrees (Celsius)and my windows STOPPED working, I was driving in a brutal greenhouse (interior temp was 48degrees) and I wanted to burn my car. That or the windows would work again for a week, and then when least suspected they'd stop working again, while down of course and it's raining.

Needless to say I'm happy. Now I can park in public places again and go shopping (not too keen on leaving my window down while at a mall, or having to always leave it open a few inches to get airflow if it decided to not work next time I turned the car on.

Much appreciated.
soapbox123

Posts: 1
Registered: 09/07/07
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Sep 7, 2007 11:02 AM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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Thx,

I was about to pay $185 for the same module. after I read your posting. I did remove the module...Yes, a soldering was open. I took some solder with a iron and put it back..work like sharm...

Thank you,

you just save me $185.00

If you are wondering wich want to remove is first black box from right to left. the numbers are in the other side.
blue9490

Posts: 1
Registered: 10/29/07
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Oct 29, 2007 1:59 AM   in response to: dbodey in response to: dbodey
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Thanks dbodey for the excellent tip! My 1994 90s has had an intermittent power window/sunroof operation problem for the past year, but I could never correlate it with temperature, humidity, road condition, phase of the moon, etc. (Like someone else reported, though, I could always tell when the windoows/sunroof were going to work or not by the existence or lack of backlight illumination in the control switches.) The intermittent failure became a hard failure a few months ago during the Texas summer heat, but fortunately the windows and sunroof failed in the closed position and my A/C still works (but only fan speeds 3 & 4 work - the subject of a future repair project).

Thanks to your info detailing the control module P/N and electrical contact assignments (I don't have a repair manual), I was able to locate and test the module as you did. During this testing, I was able to get the relays to chatter by flexing (twisting) the circuit board slightly, suggesting a bad solder joint or cracked circuit board etch. Using a magnifying glass, I examined all of the solder joints on the back side of the circuit board, paying special attention to the relay pins since these joints have been subjected to the torque and shock/vibration of the relays opening & closing thousands of times over the past 13+ years. At first glance the solder joints all looked good. However, examining the solder joints of interest while flexing the circuit board under a magifying glass revealed one of the relay pins had a subtle hairline crack around its entire circumference. I reflowed the solder at this joint, and the relay began working reliably under test.

I'm happy to report that my power windows and sunroof have been working reliably now for the past month after making this repair. Another thing to note here is that I also reflowed the solder joints for all of the other relay pins as a preventive maintenance action. I recommend this action for anyone else experiencing this problem.
John M

Posts: 1
Registered: 10/20/08
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Feb 13, 2009 11:31 AM   in response to: dbodey in response to: dbodey
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Excellent advice! I had the same problem on my 1994 90S: intermittent malfunction of the power windows and sun roof over 1 year, and then finally they stopped working altogether.

Given the discussion here, I just took a soldering iron to the larger connections of the relay switch #363 (most connected the plugs to the circuit board) without going through the testing process on the bench with a 12V battery that has been described by others in this forum. One connection seemed to have less solder and might have been broken, but was not visibly apparent until I put the solder iron to it. Popped the relay back in and it worked like a charm!

Information on my audi 90S power window relay 363 switch is

4A0 959 257
UH2 12V
Siemens 79FA404
Made in Austria
363

Thanks for the advice. Saved me some $$ and gave me the satisfaction of fixing an annoying problem myself (not to mention reducing the pressure from my mother-in-law to buy a new car)!

Thanks!

John M
phil83

Posts: 1
Registered: 08/08/09
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Aug 8, 2009 12:55 PM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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Wow! The fix on the relay #363 was perfect. There was a cold point that was the number 30. Simply resoldered the point ....pluged it in and wala...it works....thanks it just save me $500 if I were to take it to the Audi shop
wallyo

Posts: 22
Registered: 02/24/04
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Aug 8, 2009 5:03 PM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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Great fix just did the same re soldered the ckt board and had the window go up and down
A6 VAG

Posts: 1
Registered: 11/12/09
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Nov 12, 2009 7:31 AM   in response to: jong in response to: jong
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Hi. Re my "96 cabriolet, I was told that my partial failure of roof (it opens to the stage where the stowage comp. lid lifts, then stops) was a wiring loom problem, so I'm gonna try the relay fix first.
Like another member, my blower has packed up completely, first it was speeds 1,2 & 3, now it's all of them. Any ideas where to start. I have not been able to get myself a manual, don't think Haynes produced one. Cheers
cesar67

Posts: 2
Registered: 08/03/12
Re: relay 4 the power windows and sunroof
Posted: Aug 3, 2012 11:07 AM   in response to: dbodey in response to: dbodey
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Attachment DSC00005a.JPG (184.2 KB)
Hi dbodey!
I'm writing from Portugal and although my English is pretty good, there are some terms which I can not understand.
I've got a '97 2.0 litres Audi 80 Cabriolet, made somewhere in Europe (Germany perhaps...), and, in the last few months, I've experienced a similar situation with my windows.
The roof opening is totally manual and it never had never been electrical, so the relay only controls four windows.
In the beginning I noticed that the failure was rare, but it turned out to be more frequent as time went by. In one of those days, when I was at the garage of the building where I live at, in a complete silence, I notice that the clicking sound (together with the blinking lights from the door panels)was coming from under the dashboard.
I managed to find the relay (Audi prt. nš 8G0 959 257 A (Siemens 79FA405 - nš367 on the case top)). Took the cap off and found three "cooper boxes"
Since the relay spoken here is similar (in functions), I would like to know if you could help me by telling me what do you mean by "cold solder point". I presume it's an unsolded point or something alike. And if that's correct, then I think I just found the problem (see image - zoom in).
The other thing I would like you to check is the terminal numbers in "my" relay - 30 battery, 31 ground, 15 ignition. The thirties are easy to connect, but how can I "jump" the 15 to the ignition?

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