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Audi 80, 90, Coupe: 1988-1992 (B3) Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine


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Last Post: Mar 19, 2012 12:03 AM Last Post By: chickenfriend
Ben Pender

Posts: 13
Registered: 05/03/05
Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: May 3, 2005 2:58 PM
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Hi everyone,

I am rebuilding the 3A 1983cc engine in my newly acquired '89 80. It turns out that the headgasket was leaking coolant into #1 and then the engine sat for some time (6-9 months). The engine has 149k on it and since I had the head off, I decided to pull the remaining shortblock to hone the cylinders and replace the rings. Anyway, I need a set of rings for this engine.

It turns out that there are 3 different ring packages that this engine could have come with.

1. the standard VW 2.0l package: 1.2mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm from top to bottom.

2. A rare set: 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 2.0mm

3. A fairly common/later: 1.5mm, 1.7mm, 3.0mm (or something close to this).

All are 82.5mm in diameter.

What I need is the middle, rare set, 1.5, 1.5, 2.0. I am coming to the conclusion that there were only a handful of engines built with the #2 combination, which is what I need. I have searched all the usual on-line suspects (autohausaz.com, buyeuroparts.com, etc) with no luck.

Anyone have any ideas/leads? I need to go ahead and get this engine back together because this is supposed to by my wife's car which will replace my 88 Golf with terrribly faded paint, rusty floorboard, and 304k miles on the clock. Plus, its a 2 door, and with a 6 year old and an 11 month old, that is kind of a hassle.

I have considered looking for a complete replacement engine, but unless it was really cheap (like $100 or less), I feel confident that I can build an engine that will outlast anything used (with unknown history). I'm not new to building engines.

Thanks!

Regards,
Ben Pender
89 200 TQ
89 80
some VWs
some MGs

fast928

Posts: 4,192
Registered: 03/01/02
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: May 3, 2005 8:18 PM   in response to: Ben Pender in response to: Ben Pender
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I'm curious where you're getting the three different sets. I just checked ETKA and they are showing one possible set for the 3A: P/N# 053 198 151B

Just curious where your info is coming from?
AndrewA4q96

Posts: 171
Registered: 01/23/04
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: May 3, 2005 10:05 PM   in response to: fast928 in response to: fast928
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Have you tried www.blauparts.com ?
Ben Pender

Posts: 13
Registered: 05/03/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: May 4, 2005 2:14 AM   in response to: fast928 in response to: fast928
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fast928,

Someone from Europarts.com gave me that information. I tried ordering a set of rings from my local supplier. He said no problem, and then when they came in, they were the 1.2/1.5/2.0 set. That set cost about a third the price of the "correct" sets I have found ($140-160).

It would be cheaper to just buy two sets of the more common 1.2/1.5/2.0 rings, IF the top two rings are of the same profile/composition. Does ETKA give the profile or mention if the upper two rings are the same or different in profile/composition?

Thanks for the part number, though!

Regards,
Ben Pender
Ben Pender

Posts: 13
Registered: 05/03/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: May 4, 2005 2:25 AM   in response to: Ben Pender in response to: Ben Pender
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Well, I answered my own question. I just went out to the shop and looked at the rings. The top 1.5mm ring is rectangular while the middle ring has a taper on the upper inner portion. So, unfortunately they are not the same. But is this really any surprise?

Regards,
Ben Pender
Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jul 9, 2005 2:14 PM   in response to: Ben Pender in response to: Ben Pender
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Ben ,
I have the same problem ( 1.5-1.5-2.0 mm thick rings ) , did you ever find a source for the correct rings and how much did they cost ?
Kazan
Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jul 11, 2005 9:39 PM   in response to: Kazan in response to: Kazan
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Well after a lot of research , this is what I think is the answer .

053198151A use in a " NG " code engine

053198151B early 3A ( 7/87-7/90 ) 1.5/1.5/2.0

053198151C late 3A ( 7/90 & up ) 1.2/1.5/2.0 also used in the VW 2.0L engines

Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jul 12, 2005 12:04 PM   in response to: Kazan in response to: Kazan
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Ben

I will assume that you have found piston rings by now but there will be others that face this problem so I am going to post this .

The local Audi dealer parts department said they can get the early rings ( B ) for $90 .

stopshopanddrive has rings for the early Audi 3A that they say are made by Grant rings , that are over size .010 P/N VWW078901 for $37.64 .

Since my bores are within spec and all I had to do was hone them , rather than use standard rings and have large end gaps , my plan is to buy the over sized rings and fit them to each cylinder so that my end gap is at minimum specification .
Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jul 12, 2005 12:27 PM   in response to: Kazan in response to: Kazan
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Please disregard the second half of the above post , wish full thinking the over size rings are for the later 3A and VW 2.0 engines .

It looks like the dealer is the only answer for me .

Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jul 14, 2005 3:43 PM   in response to: Kazan in response to: Kazan
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I called Federal Mogul 1-800-560-1400 and they have a over sized ( 0.020 ) top ring 1.5mm thick P/N RF13PF002 which could be filed down to the correct end gap .

A second ring in standard bore 1.5mm thick P/N BT10641

A oil ring standard bore 2.0mm thick ring P/N SS99U164

Well I hope that this helps . If it does please post here I would like to know if I wasted my time or not .

Kazan
Kazan

Posts: 11
Registered: 05/27/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Oct 23, 2007 12:47 PM   in response to: Kazan in response to: Kazan
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Here it is over a year later , and my Audi 3A engine sets on its engine stand , waiting for a set of stock bore piston rings .

I am looking for stock bore ( 82.5 mm 1.5 , 1.5 . 2.0 thick rings ) ring set
for my 1089 Audi 3A engine here are some part numbers .

OEM 053198151B early 3A ( 7/87-7/90 ) 1.5/1.5/2.0
Grant Ring Set C1914.000
Total Seal Ring Set T0916 , CR 0916 , or CM 0916
Hastings Ring Set 2C6190
Deves Ring Set 2573

Can you help ?
chickenfriend

Posts: 23
Registered: 06/02/05
Re: Looking for Piston Rings for 3A engine
Posted: Jan 7, 2012 12:43 PM   in response to: Ben Pender in response to: Ben Pender
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I have run across this 2005 thread several times on Goggle searches for Audi 3A information.

The 2.0L Audi 3A "bubble block" engine was used in the Audi 80 model car from 1988-1990. I don't think it was used on the Audi 90. The same BLOCK was used by VW on their 16V engine, the 9A, but the pistons and head combination was different.
____

From what I have gathered so far, it appears that 053198151A is definitely NOT a ring set for the 3A, but was rather used for other Audi engine codes, the 2.3L NG, for example.

What may have caused this confusion is that the 5-cylinder NG has, apparently, the same bore and stroke as the 3A. It is the extra 5th cylinder that makes the displacement different between the two blocks!

That leaves the 053198151B and the 053198151C as the only two 82.5 mm ring sets for the 3A, the "B" part number is for the early 3A, the "C" part for the later 3A, which also happens to be the same ring set for the VW 9A and VW ABA engines.

It does look like the 053198151B sets might still be available (2011), although I see many webpages listing them as N/A (not available), too. As of Feb. 2012, this number shows on busdepots web catalog as rings for one piston.

===

What does seem scarce are cast piston sets for the 3A, not only standard bores, but all the overbores, as well. Or, they may not be scarce, but highly expensive due to their rarety.

I think that if I were doing a 3A rebuild and had a choice of stock pistons of either type, then I would chose the later-style pistons that take the "C" piston ring set, since those rings are commonplace.

There are a few posts on internet forums which indicate the VW AEG pistons are a suitable substitute for the 3A pistons. This might be worth further research. Evidence this could be true is that Techtonics Tuning sells a piston set (forged) for the"3A and Mk4's" (2012). Also noted is that TT sells piston rings for the early style 80 pistons.

I see that Autotech sells a JE 3A piston set for the 3A, for the standard 10.5 compression ratio. These are forged pistons, not cast like the stock OEM pistons. It is a 1.0mm overbore piston. I would assume JE is using the ABA piston ring size grooves, that would be good to check.

Edited by: chickenfriend on Mar 19, 2012 12:03 AM


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