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yee379
Posts:
8
Registered:
Apr 7, 2006
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Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 8, 2006 10:30 PM
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Hi, i've just smogged my '97 GTI 2.0L. the report came back that it's a 'gross polluter'  the NOx levels are about 4-6 times the maximum!
before i take it to a mechanic to fix, i was would like to ask you guys what do you think is wrong? (in case the mechanic decides that everything is wrong!).
15mph, 1609rpm 13.7% CO2, 0.8% 02, HC=4ppm, CO=0.03%, no=2716ppm
25mph, 1609rpm 13.6% CO2, 1.0% 02, HC=1ppm, CO=0.03%, no=2924ppm
the max and gross polluter levels of nox are 467 and 1952 at 15mph and 754 and 1752 at 25mph respectively. fortunately, the HC and CO values are well below that of the maximum allowable.
the MIL/Check Engine Light also failed and i got ODB codes of:
P0134 - O2 sensor cft inactive (Bank 1 sensor 1)
P1582 - Manufacturer specific code
P0440 - EVAP Ctrl System Malfunction.
many insight is much appreciated! thanks.
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 8, 2006 11:31 PM
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Sounds like you have a bad o2 sensor, and probably a loose vacuum hose to your evap canister, leaking. Listen for hissing and change the o2 sensors they are probably due if one is bad. Running lean, and running hot, will all produce excess NOx. O2 sensor helps you run at the right mixture, and air leak would make for lean running, and hotter running. Probably since you are running lean your cat isn't killed and the other emissions are passing okay. good luck!
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yee379
Posts:
8
Registered:
Apr 7, 2006
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 8, 2006 11:45 PM
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thanks! i was reading around and i suspected the same thing; the other possibilties were the catalytic converter and the EGR system. would you say that these are okay due to the low CO and HC emissions?
would it be cheap to replace any/all of these parts? (including the o2 sensor and vacuum hose)
i've noticed from reading around that everyone says that the DMV have now permenantly tagged my vehicle as a Gross Polluter; 1) will this deminish my resale value? and 2) do i have to use an offical (dmv approved) mechanic - or is this just for the re-testing? i'm in California.
again, many many thanks!
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 9, 2006 8:08 AM
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O2 sensor and vacuum hoses generally are not excessively expensive. You might wanna scan the computer for any codes if you suspect the EGR is not functioning. Generally the EGR fails because of vacuum leaks....I have no idea what California does, but I can't ethically understand how they can permanently tag a car as defective. As long as you make the repairs and get it to pass inspection, you shouldn't have any problems with it.
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Dan Reed
Posts:
384
From:
Registered:
May 19, 2004
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 10, 2006 12:38 PM
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IIRC 97 2.0 does not have EGR, but a air pump.
Your car sounds like its running LEAN... more so than rich. - Check the 02 sensor checked out... and if you have an evap leak - it could also be a missing link - check the lines at over the at air box - behind it and make sure none of them are cracked.
EGR is the "main preventer" of NOX, on the older OBDI cars - yours is OBDII...
Once you'll get it fixed that "Gross Polluter" will "go away", don't loose sleep over it -
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 10, 2006 12:57 PM
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The combination valve for the egr system is well known to crack and leak because it's by the hot exhaust. That might be part of the problem...
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stan
Posts:
72
From:
Wilkes-Barre, PA
Registered:
Feb 10, 2004
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 10, 2006 10:38 PM
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The codes need to be fixed! and you will most likely pass smog.P0134 sounds like a dead o2 sensor. P1582 (Idle Adaption limits reached) usally a throttle body expensive though. P0440 can be the cause of your dead O2 if you have a vacume leak or a stuck perge valve.
hope this helps stan
Message was edited by: stan
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yee379
Posts:
8
Registered:
Apr 7, 2006
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 11, 2006 1:29 AM
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hey, thanks everyone!
Stan: you got me a bit worried about the idle adaption limit code reading around on the forum a little, i currently have a very stable idle just under 1K rpm - do you think that i may need the throttle body cleaned? i was kinda wondering whether this code came up because of the other two problems (vacuum leak and O2 sensor).
i'm taking the car in to a mechanic tomorrow, so we'll see what he says.
cheers 
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Dan Reed
Posts:
384
From:
Registered:
May 19, 2004
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 11, 2006 9:39 PM
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My car was throwing a similar code, cause the throttle cable was a tiny bit too tight. Check your butterfly in the throttle body isn't sticking, and that your tps sensor wires are not damaged, then check that the throttle cable is not interfering with the full closing of the throttle, which would give you slightly higher idle. On BMW give you very bad idle...cause of the airblower..
It might just be your throttle plate not closing right, also if it's too loose adjust it tighter, cause maybe it's not opening enuff. Of course don't over look the obvious other tune up maintenane parts. Check the coil resistance, and plug wires, and replace the spark plugs.
My car throws all kind of stupid codes for stupid stuff, and they don't make sense sometimes, I feel no driving/performance problem. But they generally have some suddle performance link, like my ignition timing is not perfect, (My wires to my O2 sensor were just crimp connected, and my distributor wires need to be soldered together, rather than twisted taped.) that can affect a lot of things.
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stan
Posts:
72
From:
Wilkes-Barre, PA
Registered:
Feb 10, 2004
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 11, 2006 10:52 PM
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I have seen a lot of post by Dan and he's does good work and gives good info! But I don't agree with the link on cleaning the throttle body. First off you have to remove the throttle body, you will never clean it well other wise. And I see no harm in cleaning it; actually it is good to clean it. But I have cleaned many and never has it stopped this code. I'll totally go along with Port's cable problem, seen that cause this code, holds the throttle plate open therefore the idle Adaptation limits can be exceeded. I love the part on disconnect the battery to clear the code. That will clear the code and all adaptive learning, which is not good! And 9 times out of 10 after a few days the car will learn all the adaptive limits again and your code will come back. Why does V.W. tell you?
“Only initiate "Basic Setting" function 04 when the throttle valve control module -J338-, the Engine Control Module (ECM) -J220- or the engine has been replaced”
And…
“Initiating basic setting matches the ECM to the throttle valve control module with the ignition switched on.”
Disconnecting the battery is the same thing. The ECM is not matched to the throttle body, because you wipe the ECM’s memory! And there are more learned adaptations like the oxygen sensor learned fuel trim and the trans learned shift points ext… It just takes days for the car to learn all it’s adaptation points again including idle.
And I will sell anybody a brand new throttle body for $350.00 not $600.00. I am not picking on anybody!!!! I just know the throttle bodies on theses cars BITE THE BIG ONE!
Yee339, yes the vacuum leak can cause this code! I just know that sometimes you can do everything, clean the throttle body, do a idle relearn, test the throttle body for days, and not see any problem with the way the car runs. Just his damn check engine light and P1582 stored. And change the throttle body and it is gone!
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yee379
Posts:
8
Registered:
Apr 7, 2006
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 17, 2006 4:14 AM
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thanks for all the help everyone  i've got the car back now and it runs fine passed the smog and everything! but it still cost me over 500$
in the end, i got the O2 sensor replaced, and a load of hoses changed. the mechanic suggested that i did indeed replace the throttle body - but i didn't really want to spend 400$ (inc. labor! not 600 - thank gawd!) for a single part if the car works fine otherwise. i don't have the thing to read the ODB codes, so i'm happily living in ignorance of whether the P1582 code is back or not
i've done about 100 miles so far and the engine light hasn't come back on either <touch wood>
anyway, thanks again everyone!
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Dan Reed
Posts:
384
From:
Registered:
May 19, 2004
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Re: Failed Smog Check! Help!
Posted:
Apr 17, 2006 12:29 PM
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> I have seen a lot of post by Dan and he's does good
> work and gives good info! But I don't agree with the
> link on cleaning the throttle body. First off you
> have to remove the throttle body, you will never
> clean it well other wise. And I see no harm in
> cleaning it; actually it is good to clean it. But I
> have cleaned many and never has it stopped this code.
> I'll totally go along with Port's cable problem, seen
> that cause this code, holds the throttle plate open
> therefore the idle Adaptation limits can be exceeded.
> I love the part on disconnect the battery to clear
> the code. That will clear the code and all adaptive
> learning, which is not good! And 9 times out of 10
> after a few days the car will learn all the adaptive
> limits again and your code will come back. Why does
> V.W. tell you?
And, that post, and article is made for the average person who has no VAG.COM, and wants to take a shot at clearing the code. I know all too well, as I teach it - the pulling the battery "clears the codes" as well as all the other data stored in KAM.
However, the simple fact is the PCM is too picky, as per the VW design with the intagrated TB, it get sludged, you clean it (And it can be cleaned fine with it on the car, however you can "clean it easier" off the car..)
Nuke the code, and the old TB adaptation and its good for another 50,000 miles. Until the TB gets sludged up again. I' am now on my 8th car where this worked 100%..
And I'll totaly avoid Port's cable theory - sure, that's fine if that were the case the P1852 code would fire up in about 400 miles, not 40,000 as when most P1852 codes show up.
> “Only initiate "Basic Setting" function 04 when the
> throttle valve control module -J338-, the Engine
> Control Module (ECM) -J220- or the engine has been
> replaced”
> And…
> “Initiating basic setting matches the ECM to the
> throttle valve control module with the ignition
> switched on.”
True, again VAG talking here. They want to preserve ALL the KAM settings...
> Disconnecting the battery is the same thing. The ECM
> is not matched to the throttle body, because you wipe
> the ECM’s memory! And there are more learned
> adaptations like the oxygen sensor learned fuel trim
> and the trans learned shift points ext… It just takes
> days for the car to learn all it’s adaptation points
> again including idle.
Again, I know this, however - how many people have a VAG, and know how to use it?
> And I will sell anybody a brand new throttle body for
> $350.00 not $600.00. I am not picking on anybody!!!!
> I just know the throttle bodies on theses cars BITE
> THE BIG ONE!
Call many dealers? I was quoted the $600 from Cherry Hill Imports (NJ) two years ago.
> Yee339, yes the vacuum leak can cause this code! I
> just know that sometimes you can do everything, clean
> the throttle body, do a idle relearn, test the
> throttle body for days, and not see any problem with
> the way the car runs. Just his damn check engine
> light and P1582 stored. And change the throttle body
> and it is gone!
And so is the $350 out of your pocket. What "fails" in the TB that is soooo critial that it needs to be replaced?
What I ask you...
DIRT... is what is replaced, or removed with the "new TB".
Like I said, Ive done 5 of these now... and I have yet to "need" to replace the TB as per the VAG manual... sure that's going to fix it....
Perhaps, its got something with me pulling the battery that prevents the code from comming back? IT would make sense that there is more than the idle adaption that needs to be reset.
And so what if the car has to "relearn" how to drive.. what happens every time you change the starter, alternator, or work on the electrical system... book tells you to remove the neg. terminal... bye bye KAM.
And don't even get me started on the worthless 9v battery "memory savers" - they stink.
(I'm not angry, just felt like counter pointing your points.. and I am not a VAG trained guy, just all self learned stuff from working on other cars - VW would like you to think they are "special" - but they are no more complex - or as easy as a Honda or Ford.. All sensors and PCM logic plays by the same basic rules...)
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